Curse

Cacheelma · May 09, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

The more you use f2p as an excuse for being an inferior game, the more evidence to prove that this so-called business model will NEVER replace the pay-to-play model.

Bront · May 09, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

IMHO the fact that the thread titles mentions "noobs" and not "newbs" indicates that either the OP is making a stupid amalgam between the two, or that he's not a veteran of net-speak but a net-noob himself.

Furthermore, why do you feel that "you" need Anet's favor? You had a f2p MMO with a lot of fun, and you want more more more?

At one point in time, there was only "noobs" and no "newbs" in net speak.

I've been a net junkie for years, and only learned of "Newbs" here.

Boren Supremecy · May 09, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

calm down its easy money now that z keys are worth more

Mist Walker Skarloc · May 09, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

It's money as everyone's said, pretty obvious really.

It's a shame, in a way I'd rather pay a monthly fee to ensure that ANet makes the game better for everyone, not just the newcomers buying the game.

Juk3n · May 09, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Who would have thought the introduction of just another chest opening title would bring out the B*tch in so called "Veterans" ? How the HELL does this 'CHEST OPENING TITLE' effect your Uber HA / GvG game?

IMO they did this so they could see all the Elitist "Veteran" Scum QQ MOAR and the /laugh at them in secret.

Punish Veterans?

I consider myself pretty Veteran pal, and i don't feel punished, 3 years and 3500 hours down the line im still having as much fun as i always have..go figure.

In the illustrious wourds of Anet employees everywhere

Kekekeke QQmoarnubkthxbai!11oneeleven

Big_Daddy · May 09, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

I see no point in silly things like KoABD or an emote because you spent 100,000,000 balthazar faction.

Amen Brother!!

Magikarp · May 09, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

i've been playing for 3 years, and just now started playing one of my characters for maxed titles. who's the system favoring again? did you not get your birthday minis or bonus preorder items too? we get lots of perks others dont...

Taki · May 09, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

New blood, new money.

Why would anet care about 'veterans'? They spent your money long ago.

MithranArkanere · May 09, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Oh, they also punish the noobs.

For example. You are a new player with Nightfall and EotN. That you receive as a gift.
You make a paragon and a dervish, you tried th other professions, but you decided you like most those two.
You like to collect armors and weapons most than anything in the game.
Then you get Factions and Prophecies without getting really informed about what are you going to find.

No skills... no armors... only end-game weapons... no inscriptions... disappointment.

See? Noobs can also get punished.

But more than punishing veterans or treating noobs. What I don't like in PvE is the 'stick to one character' feel that the HoM and many titles have brought.

In PvE, it doesn't matte the character that accomplish things, the player always gets titles. In PvE, out of achievements (Protector, Guardian, etc) most of the grind titles are character-based, so a player that likes all professions will be 'forced' to stick to one to concentrate efforts and fill the HoM, and once the HoM is filled with that character, he 'must' switch to another character and never come back to the previous.

The PvP way: "it doesn't matter the character, only the player" its WAY better.

impoc · May 09, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I only read the first post, but I laughed because there was a topic a week ago about someone complaining that newbies got punished because the veterans got the new birthday minipets and could sell them for lots of money

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The importance of being good at Guild Wars has been massively decreased, and if you can't see that you're probably one of the ones benefiting. Guild Wars was an experiment and an accidental success if anything - and I sometimes doubt ANet has a very solid vision of where they want to take the game.

Where they are taking it, is to serve the lowest common denominator rather than to emphasize the niche uniqueness of some of their original ideas.

QFT

The biggest issue is that their business model isn't conducive to caring about their loyal players. They need new players to survive, and people who've already paid are just a burden on their servers. People have pointed this out in the past, but most players never look into things like business models or strategy - and then they sit around and wonder why companies act the way they do.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 10, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

QFT

The biggest issue is that their business model isn't conducive to caring about their loyal players. They need new players to survive, and people who've already paid are just a burden on their servers. People have pointed this out in the past, but most players never look into things like business models or strategy - and then they sit around and wonder why companies act the way they do.

Well then if the older players are burdens then count us out for gw2, why would we want to be treated the same in the next game. I mean by this logic they will give us want we want for a year then drive us out. If thats the way it is then I am skipping gw2 completely. Lets some other chump piss their money away. I learn from my mistakes and if anet is that two faced then buying an arenanet product was a mistake I will not make again.

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

Well then if the older players are burdens then count us out for gw2, why would we want to be treated the same in the next game. I mean by this logic they will give us want we want for a year then drive us out. If thats the way it is then I am skipping gw2 completely. Lets some other chump piss their money away. I learn from my mistakes and if anet is that two faced then buying an arenanet product was a mistake I will not make again.

It's not really a matter of being two-faced; anyone who actually looked into their business model would have realized that things would be different in GW. The lack of monthly fees changes the incentives: the business model has the greatest level of success if you can get people to pay the up-front costs each time, but use relatively little of the service. Thus, all they really have to do is keep you interested enough to buy the next campaign - that's generally a low bar to meet. Player perception is positively influenced by the fact that you don't pay a monthly fee. In subscription MMOs, once people lose interest they cancel their accounts because they have to keep paying money to maintain them. GW, on the other hand, probably gets more 'return' players, because the accounts are always just sitting there waiting for them. If people get bored, they leave for a while, but they'll probably still buy the next campaign and come back.

The beauty of the system here is MMOs in general represent a sunk cost, but most consumers don't understand the concept of sunk cost (and even the ones who do generally can't resist throwing good money/time after bad). Once you've got people 'hooked', so to speak, you can be confident that a good portion of them will continue buying new releases just so they don't feel that their previous money/time spent was wasted.

There's a similar hook in EoTN for GW2 - the HoM. A lot of people will buy GW2 simply because they've got stuff in their HoM that they don't want to 'waste', stuff that they've probably spent a lot of time and effort on. And they will buy it even if they didn't really plan on playing GW2 originally. Consumers are easily manipulated this way, and even if a few people figure it out, it often doesn't matter in the face of all of the thousands of people who don't know or don't care.

I don't claim to know what Anet's actual thinking or motivations are (I've stated elsewhere, several times, that I really can't figure Anet out), and I'm no businessman. But, this is how the incentive play out in my point of view.

Mac Sidewinder · May 10, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Why does it seem that everybody nowdays has this "What have you done for me lately" attitude towards Anet? Now I'm not a fanboy of anet but it seems to me that if you have been playing this game for very long then you certainly got your money's worth out of it. There are not too many games that hold people's attention like this one that you only have to pay for once.

I'm sure anet isn't trying to drive out the older players. For what reason would they? It's exactly the opposite. They want you to hang around long enough to eventually switch to GW2 when it comes out. It only hurts them to see people leave. Now in that same vein you have to consider that they have to try to attract more new players also so they try to appeal to them too. Its a very fine balancing act that some people just don't get.

As an older player if there are things you don't like then stay away from them. What is it hurting you? Is it pulling money out of your pocket? Is it making you less competitive in pvp? Or are you simply mad that your epeen is getting smaller because the new players have a chance to accomplish something also?

At the end of the day folks, remember that it is just a game that will disappear someday to be replaced by something else. Don't take it so seriously.

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Well, the 'balancing act' is keeping you just interested enough to buy the next game. If they can do that, their job is done.

But here's the thing: by now, they've realized that the veteran players are the smallest group, and are also more likely to stick with the game for the long haul because they're heavily invested. Furthermore, it's a lot easier for veteran players to leave the game and come back later, because they understand the game better. What this basically means is that Anet doesn't really have to work that hard to keep the veteran players - and they don't lose that much even if the veteran players leave.

The real money is in the casual player base, which is why you see so much effort being put there. They need to grab more players, and they need to keep them long enough to buy the next game. Casual players probably don't get hooked as easily, don't spend as much time, and probably aren't as likely to develop franchise loyalty - at least, not as likely as the veteran players. That means you've got to give them more attention.

Again, my take on the business aspect.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

Why does it seem that everybody nowdays has this "What have you done for me lately" attitude towards Anet? Now I'm not a fanboy of anet but it seems to me that if you have been playing this game for very long then you certainly got your money's worth out of it. There are not too many games that hold people's attention like this one that you only have to pay for once.

Some players care about the game and see the potential in it, and would like to see it as good as possible.

It's not as good as possible now.

knockturnal · May 10, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

My take isn't so much 'noobs vs vets', but it's one I've been discussing in Guild Chat lately with players who are 'older'.

I think the game has turned into a 'gratify me now' type of system. I remember when I started playing GW (in the days of refund points), and the environment then was just totally different. There were levels within the game itself; You didn't have to be wealthy to succeed, but the potential to be wealthy was there. There were elements in the game which were still 'rare'. There was excitement when you got 15k armor, excitement when you found a r13 Gold Fellblade in Thunderhead Keep, the importance of making it to Ember Light Camp, missions which were still actually a challenge and required well formulated builds to complete (THK being the big one), and the joy of making your first 100k.

Now its obvious that someone just starting the game will not know these things, but seeing the game as it is now, there really isn't much to 'work' towards. The economy has been wrecked and 'rare' now refers primarily to minipets. It's not about having 15k armor now but how many sets of it. And missions? You could sleep and make it through them. The days of adventure (which is what I fell in love with early on) are gone. Look at the detail work in the far reaches of Tyrian areas and then compare that to what's available in Factions, Nightfall, and EOTN, and you'll see it's nowhere NEAR the same level. Everything has progressively become 'dumbed down' to where it's a breeze. Not nearly as much cash is needed now to obtain 'rare' items as it once was and having 100k isn't needed unless you want to cap skills.

There have been good things added (heroes are quite frankly amazing), but the game has gone from adventure and taking weeks and weeks of leveling to the ability to level a character from 1-20 within 5 hours without any sort of assistance. I doubt many new players identify with their characters the way the older players do, because we had the pleasure of the experience rather than the instant gratification that has come with more recent games.

I look forward to gw2 purely because I'm hoping it regains that feel again. I hope they drop the slogan of 'a game that rewards skill and not time played' and adapt one that provides the sense of pleasure in LEARNING the game that existed when Guild Wars was released.

C2K · May 10, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

.

I'm sure anet isn't trying to drive out the older players. For what reason would they? It's exactly the opposite. They want you to hang around long enough to eventually switch to GW2 when it comes out. It only hurts them to see people leave. Now in that same vein you have to consider that they have to try to attract more new players also so they try to appeal to them too. Its a very fine balancing act that some people just don't get.

Well, that may be so, but it seems like the opposite. It seems like they are trying to remove all planning and strategy from the game so that people can get GWAMM title before GW2 is released, and its destroying the fun factor of the original game in the process. Segregating skills between PvE and PvP is the latest bad move and its going to leave even a wider rift in the GW community than their was before. Anet might as well just make two separate games for GW2, GW2 and GW2: PvP Edition.

odly · May 10, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Avalon

So, why does ANet favor the noobs and punish the veterans?

Because the noobs are the majority these days.

Fay Vert · May 10, 2008, 10:33 AM // 10:33

The titles/emotes/double weekends/consumables are just easy ways to hook more players into grind wars. ANet wants grind wars because its a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to add grind than it is to add game. Expect GW2 to be Grind Wars Squared.